Author interview: Laura Henry-Allain

I was chuffed to finally get the opportunity to chat with Laura Henry-Allain MBE, author of the new children’s picture book My Skin, Your Skin, illustrated by Onyinye Iwu and published by Ladybird last October. 

Laura wrote the book to offer adults an accessible way into conversations with children about the concepts of racism and anti-racism from the starting point of celebrating our differences. It was great to catch up with her to find out more:

My Skin, Your Skin is a thought-provoking, brave work. I love the stunning, inclusive cover and the title is so memorable. How did the title come about? 

I worked on a project with Ladybird two or three years ago and then, later, I talked with one of their editors about writing a series of books. So, in the context of where we were globally 20 months ago — focused on racism — the editor suggested we write a book on racism. (I'd also previously co-written a guide, Supporting You to Raise an Anti-Racist Child.) The concept was there and the editor and I worked collaboratively on the title, the content and the clear messages we wanted to get across with regards to My Skin, Your Skin.

How personal would you say My Skin, Your Skin is to you? 

On every single page I included something personal or professional that had meaning for me, and I had goosebumps writing the book. I think as a Black person; as an educator with more than 30 years' experience in education; as someone who works in TV, media and publishing; as a parent of two Black men (one of them is autistic) and as someone who has experienced racism as a child, in my teens and even now, it is very personal to me. 

When I was young, you'd get real profanities in terms of derogatory comments, but I think now it's done in a very sophisticated, subtle way, for example, through exclusion, gaslighting and stereotypical perceptions. However, as we know, there are Black and brown people who still face real violence in terms of name-calling and/or physical violence. The book was an emotive project. It is very personal to me and to many of the Black and brown people who have read the book and given me feedback.  

Onyinye Iwu’s illustrations are superb! Did you have any input into her illustrative process? 

Yes. At the start, the book was commissioned without an illustrator, and so it was all about finding the correct illustrator who was able to feel the power of the words and translate them creatively. So when the editor showed me examples of Onyinye's work I thought 'Yes! She's the person to illustrate this book'. I already knew of her and liked her style of illustration —  she's amazing — and I was delighted to have her on board. 

Onyinye really understood my words — she internalised the text. I wanted to make sure that visually we displayed diversity in terms of religion, for example, characters wearing a kippah, a patka or a hijab, and in skin tones and showing disabilities. All those distinctions are in the book. I felt that, yes, a white illustrator would have been able to illustrate the book but a Black illustrator would feel the emotions of the book from their own lived experience with regards to racism. 

I would also say a huge thank you to the designer as well as it's such a massive team effort, and a shout out to Louie Stowell and Lou Grosart, the editors. And, equally, props to my colleagues who were advisors on the project: Liz Pemberton aka The Black Nursery Manager, and Dr Eunice Lumsden, Head of Early Years at the University of Northampton. They gave me feedback on the written work and the illustrations right the way through.  

I think it’s so helpful that you start the book from the point of celebrating people’s differences. What do you say to sceptics who claim young children don’t see differences? 

A lot of people come from a position of 'I'm not racist...we don't need to discuss it' or 'As a teacher/parent, I don't see differences'. And the traditional thing you tend to hear is 'my best friend is Black', or 'my brother-in-law is Black'. I can see people are trying to be kind, thinking 'If I say that, it means that I'm not perceived as racist', but the analogy I use to counter this is: 

Now we're in winter and I have a number of trees on my road. There are no leaves on the trees because we're in winter – they all look the same. In a few months' time, we'll see the buds and leaves, we'll see the blooming – and that they are all beautifully different. And then we'll get into autumn and the leaves will start falling. This time next year, there will be no leaves on the trees again.  

Saying 'I don't see differences', is like saying to a child that I don't see seasonal changes — all trees are the same; all seasons are the same. And I think, when you use that as an example, people get what you're trying to say. Convincing yourself that you don't see differences actually makes the situation worse because, in a sense, you're colluding with racists in that you're not willing to have an understanding of race and racism or to deepen your understanding of how racism affects many different people within society. It also suggests there is no racism and that we mustn't discuss racism with children in the early years. 

Sometimes, people don't realise the full extent of what they are saying — that it is causing damage and not helping us in trying to eradicate racism. So I think we need to challenge that and call it out because they do see me as a Black person; they cannot say they don't see me as different. 

And actually, Black and brown children don't get a choice. I know two-year-olds who have had racism directed at them from peers and adults in their Early Years setting. We discuss big issues with children, such as climate change — the environment and why we need to recycle — so we mustn't shy away from issues like racism that impact children.

A lot of white people want to do the right thing but seem to think 'I don't know what to say and I don't want to offend you' and so the feedback should be it's okay to say the words 'black' and 'white'. In the book, we start from the point of celebrating differences: whether you've got black, curly or straight hair — talking about backgrounds — and for some children that may be the first time that they've been able to vocalise information about their heritage and family, and feel proud of it. 

I've heard stories of children who are in the minority in their school or Early Years setting, who come home and say they want to be white. We need to give children a clear message that's it's okay to be Black, brown or biracial, and the starting point is making sure children are exposed to positive differences where children see Black and brown people in a positive light.

Intersectionality is integrated naturally throughout. Was it a conscious decision to ensure a more nuanced representation of the Black and brown characters depicted? 

Absolutely! Nuance in representation is the root of all my work over the last 30 years within Early Years, education, with brands, TV and publishing. That's always been there. I've never been about superficially showing Black and brown skin — it's digging deeper with regards to that — it's not showing a one-dimensional approach. I think it's super-important for children in the early years to grasp differences on many different levels. We know from birth how rapidly children's brains develop and so they also are developing concepts like an understanding of differences from an early age.

Educators and parents have shared stories with me of when a child has called another child an offensive name. Where has that come from? If a three-year-old is able to say 'It's the Black men who are robbers', where has that come from? Hence the importance of showing Black and brown people in positive roles so that children are able to say they've read my book, or Look Up and Clean Up by Nathan Bryon and Dapo Adeola or books by Trish Cooke and many other Black authors.

My Skin, Your Skin takes a bold stance in defining racism. What led you to this approach? 

I think, for me, I wanted children to have a clear understanding and for there to be no grey areas. The illustrations, graphics and layout help with that: it is a very bold stance in terms of what racism is. There was no dancing around the subject. Racism is racism, and I think we have to take a stance and say that enough is enough, and we have to make the changes. We have to educate the next generation in their early years. 

It's about empowering children to know that racism is wrong and to call it out, and it's about informing others correctly with historical facts around where racism comes from. The book is not going to solve all global racism issues — for me it's a starting point. 

I've had feedback from adults, parents or teachers, that it's helped them in their journey of understanding race and racism and empowering children. For some, it will amplify the work they are already doing and, for others, it's a starting point in their journey. 

A poignant aspect of the book is the explicit examples of racist bullying you pinpoint and describe. How prevalent do you feel racist bullying is within educational settings? 

Yes, it is in a percentage of educational settings, and I'm talking all the way from Early Years right up to the end of statutory education. Unfortunately, it is there, and I hear stories all the time from older pupils. If any educators say racist bullying is not there, I think they are not being truthful, which comes back to my earlier point about 'we don't see colour'. Unless we can acknowledge that this statement is a problem, we cannot solve racist bullying. 

Last November, a headteacher asked me to order My Skin, Your Skin for every single class (I'd like to mention I'm also a distributor of my own books too if people want to buy copies from me, which I can personally sign). She wanted to use the book as a springboard to discuss bullying. It's perfect for use in schools during Anti-Bullying Week because it talks about racist bullying. 

Leaving a Black or brown child out of a game — that's bullying. Any form of physical violence, ridiculing somebody or talking about someone's Afro hair, etc, that's all racist bullying. I think unless we are able to acknowledge this, we can't solve it. If we're in denial of it, we aren't able to be solution-driven to make the necessary changes. 

How important was it to include joyful messaging of empowerment, self-confidence, and self-respect, which is done beautifully by the way?  

Empowerment was super-important. Although it is important to discuss race and racism, it's also about giving children the opportunity to have a voice, and for children to know that their voice matters and that, as adults, we listen to them. We need to say to children it's okay to call out racism, to call out bullying, to call out things that aren't right. When I was growing up, there was still a bit of 'children should be seen and not heard'. But now, I feel children are becoming very vocal about injustices and I have to applaud their level of activism — their way of saying 'this isn't right'. I feel the changes are going to come from this next generation. And there's a starting point for that in my book too: it empowers children, gives them the self-confidence to know their voice matters. 

Reflecting on your long career in Early Years education, do you think we’ve made any gains in terms of embedding an anti-racist approach into our practice? 

In the 1980s, when I started out, you'd be very lucky to find any Black people who worked in the Early Years, even in London. It's changing slowly but we do still need more Black educators and teachers in all sectors of education from Early Years to further education. Equally, we need more Black men working within the sector — big plug for my colleagues Jamel and Joss!

Joss, Jamel, Liz and I are the co-founders of the Early Years Black List. It's coming up to a year now since we launched that. It's important that Black educators have a voice — that we are invited to speak — not just on issues pertaining to us in terms of race and racism — but we can talk about many topics across the education spectrum, for example, outdoor learning or maths. There are many Black people who are experts and whose voices need to be amplified. And in terms of practice, educators need to acknowledge that there has been racism and talk about what solutions are needed. The work Liz has been doing around that, over the last 18 months, is profound, but we still have a long way to go. 

As well as the notes and glossary at the back of the book, can you tell us a bit more about the extra resources available for teachers and parents/carers? 

The educational resources for KS1 have been well received and they can also be used in EYFS and KS2 to supplement learning. Schools and teachers, either on email or social media, are sharing with me how they've been using the book. For example, using Crayola skin-tone crayons with children while they're drawing, to promote talk about differences and the fact that racism is wrong. 

I think the book will be one that schools and parents will reference for decades and I have to really applaud the schools that are embracing it and really walking the walk. And during the school visits I've done, I've seen displays linked to the book, and heard children talking about the book. 

This next generation of children are really being congruent — school communities are being congruent — but I always feel it comes down to the senior leadership team (SLT) of the school. If the SLT is already on their own personal and professional anti-racist journey, more likely anti-racism will be embedded within the school community. As we know, it's the leadership of the school that sets the vision. 

Laura is an award-winning international producer, writer, speaker and consultant. She is the creator of the well-loved JoJo and Gran Gran series, developed by CBeebies and is the series’ associate producer. She is also executive producer on a few shows that are currently in development.

My Skin, Your Skin by Laura Henry-Allain MBE, illustrated by Onyinye Iwu, is available in hardback from Bookshop or Laura's website.

Resources for teachers 

Key Stage 1 resources (downloadable for the Penguin Lit In Colour)

Check out my Black Children's Books directory for suggested suitability of all the books I review.  All the books that I read are also checked against my Jericho Benchmark.